tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post3212705334461580414..comments2024-03-14T13:25:20.613-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: Speaking Up for Bundling “like a Roman heroine” Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-17335245621868358892012-09-19T12:29:40.426-05:002012-09-19T12:29:40.426-05:00On the question of fooling around, studies have sh...On the question of fooling around, studies have shown that 30-40% of first-time New England brides were pregnant on their wedding day in the early 1700s. However, that was a significant rise from the 1600s when sharing beds was probably more common, indicating that bundling alone wasn't the cause. There appears to have been a more general relaxing of sexual mores which shows up in other areas as well: almost no judicial punishments for consensual gay sex, for example. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-21637180930372701422012-09-19T12:22:21.485-05:002012-09-19T12:22:21.485-05:00Another possibility is that Peters's point was...Another possibility is that Peters's point was that the second woman was just reciting some old Latin phrase she knew, with no understanding of its meaning and no link to the conversation. Like, say, the Wizard's description of the Scarecrow's diploma in the <i>Wizard of Oz</i> movie. But then I'd expect that phrase to show up elsewhere. <br /><br />Thanks for the analysis! J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-5896970175461291192012-09-19T12:18:23.183-05:002012-09-19T12:18:23.183-05:00There's a possibility that the minister in thi...There's a possibility that the minister in this story was an Anglican (perhaps even Peters himself) while the women, if they were New Englanders, we're almost certainly Calvinist Congregationalists. For some Puritans the Church of England, especially if ministers were suggesting any change, was too much like the Roman Catholic hierarchy. Still, it would be hard to argue for the tradition of St. Paul yet against the church with the mighty symbol of St. Paul's Cathedral. <br /><br />J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-44036338818151924302012-09-19T05:16:33.058-05:002012-09-19T05:16:33.058-05:00My first reaction when reading this quote was that...My first reaction when reading this quote was that "presbyteri claves" was indeed a reference to the crossed keys (in an X) of St Peter, the symbol of the Pope. Given the internal structure and logic of the sentence it makes perfect sense as a foil to "gladii decussate." But given the context of the discussion between the minister and the women, and the insult it was in response to, the quote made little sense to me except as a non sequitur - a non sequitur insult? Calling one a "Papist" in that day and age would certainly have been a devastating insult.<br /> One could get overanalytical and note that the use of the word "presbyteri" could be fraught with implication. "Presbyteri" is a latin translation of a greek word used in the New Testament. Its translation is fraught with theological implications. Catholics translate this word as "priests" and Protestants as "elders"; and its translation has a lot to do with the role of priests and the Church as opposed to a congregation in obtaining forgiveness. The theological implications would most likely be known to the minister but the woman would really have to know her stuff.<br /> I fo feel that there is a context to this quote which has been lost to us especially given the fact that it made this rather obnoxious minister just shut up.<br /> The only thing I'm sure about this quote is that I'm not sure of it.<br /> Know any Jesuits?EJWiteknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-88173945043820335272012-09-19T01:36:11.894-05:002012-09-19T01:36:11.894-05:00This is a fascinating discussion, and one that rai...This is a fascinating discussion, and one that raises the question of how sexy our Revolutionary and colonist societies were. I've read some pretty risque jokes from the 1840s, and now this bundling custom makes me wonder, how much fooling around was tolerated through the system? Obviously, it was designed as a form of birth control, but was everything else considered OK? -- Joe BaumanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-15265822433974974862012-09-18T22:41:56.054-05:002012-09-18T22:41:56.054-05:00Any connection to the sword emblem of Paul and the...Any connection to the sword emblem of Paul and the keys emblem of Peter? J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-36445573316874039972012-09-18T18:43:28.039-05:002012-09-18T18:43:28.039-05:00I will take a shot at translating " Gladii de... I will take a shot at translating " Gladii decussati sunt gemina presbyteri clavis."<br /> I think it should read "Gladii decussate sunt gemina presbyteri claves." <br /> A rough translation would be: "Crossed swords are (worth) twice that of priests' keys." <br /> The "crossed swords" refers specifically to swords crossed in the form of an "X", the Roman number 10. "Claves" is the plural of "clavis" and makes more sense since "presbyteri" is plural. I would speculate that "keys" refers to the "keys to the kingdom of heaven." <br /> Quite frankly, the minister's reference to psalm 120 and especially to "the tents of Kedar" is really quite insulting since he is calling the ladies uncivilized barbarians. I'm surprised that they didn't box his ears, at a minimum.<br /> The Latin quote is rather strange and I have the feeling that the woman is referring to something that has been lost in time.<br /> By the way, Gaius Trebonius was one of the principal plotters of Caesar's assassination and was the man who delayed Marc Antony outside Pompey's Theater so that he could not come to Caesar's aid while he was being murdered. EJWiteknoreply@blogger.com