tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post6391063386426288293..comments2024-03-14T13:25:20.613-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: The Real Green Dragon TavernUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-74699611399453461202021-01-15T22:21:42.164-05:002021-01-15T22:21:42.164-05:00As the posting documented, there’s confusion betwe...As the posting documented, there’s confusion between the original Green Dragon Tavern and this one. As to whether the current one is “keeping history alive” with the claims on that placemat, that’s not actual history, just a sloppy approximation. <br /><br />There are other choices. As a comment above notes, the nearby Bell in Hand Tavern has sturdier historical roots. The Warren Tavern of Charlestown operates in the same building as the original that opened in 1780. And the Green Dragon Tavern of Carlsbad, California, has a carefully reproduced façade and a museum of colonial documents and newspapers inside. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-60134738523105766982021-01-15T01:32:58.936-05:002021-01-15T01:32:58.936-05:00Is The Tea party ship at the Museum the original? ...Is The Tea party ship at the Museum the original? If the Green Dragon wants to help keep history alive sign me up.<br /><br />Joseph Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03402109642286545237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-40251242439045866282020-07-20T02:47:02.237-05:002020-07-20T02:47:02.237-05:00Yeah. OK buddy. Lmao!Yeah. OK buddy. Lmao!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-45631399353111166752017-07-13T08:28:52.284-05:002017-07-13T08:28:52.284-05:00I feel a close relationship with the original tave...I feel a close relationship with the original tavern as I'm related to many of the original liberty boys who met there. Included are uncles and cousins, John Hancock, Paul Revere, Samuel Dexter, Joseph Warren, James Otis and the loyalist Peter Oliver and traitor Benjamin Church. It might explain my independent nature. Irishwarmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02648075110737721368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-45852361247180472462017-03-19T12:16:37.552-05:002017-03-19T12:16:37.552-05:00 n k ? n k ?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12187762848491246288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-65255125990166278982013-07-03T22:41:42.696-05:002013-07-03T22:41:42.696-05:00As of tonight, Wikipedia counts 82 generals in the...As of tonight, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Continental_Army_generals" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia counts</a> 82 generals in the Continental Army. <br /><br />So I think the answer to my question above is Yes. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-45960085006204226982013-07-03T15:36:13.811-05:002013-07-03T15:36:13.811-05:00J.L.,
Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74) u...J.L.,<br /><br />Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74) uses 'the key'(74): A=1,B=2...O=15 or zerO...Z=26. The only irregularity is the circle: O can be either 15 or zer0. It's like an Ace in cards is 1 or 11.<br /><br />704=GOD: 7 is G, 0 is... What letter is zero? There is none. A circle remains a circle. D is 4.<br /><br />GOD=7_4: the use of the underscore shows that O can be either the 15th letter, hence GOD=7154 or O is a zero, hence GOD=704.<br /><br />Freemasonry has always recognized a connect(74) between(74) 7 & 4. The ancients observed that there are 7 moving objects(74) in the heavens(74) and 4 of these don't cast shadows(74) on Earth (Venus does). The 4 phases of the lunar months(74) are 7 day (7.4 days) each. The lunar year + 7 day week + 4 days = 365 day solar year.<br /><br />The ancient Egyptians (among others) practiced 'sacred geometry' with its precept of "As above, so below" ("On Earth is it is in the heavens.") They took the 7 & 4 from the heavens and altered the Standard/Biblical Cubits(74) of 6 palms x 4 fingers and added a palm to create Royal Cubits of 7 palms x 4 fingers. The architect of the Pyramids at Giza, the Sphinx, the Temples at Luxor, etc all began their design by using Royal Cubits.<br /><br />It's a Freemasonry thing! The Bible uses the GOD=7_4 Code all over the place, i.e. King(4) Solomon(7) began building the Temple in the 4th year of his reign and it took 7 years to build, "Selah" is found 74x: 71 in Psalms & 3 in Habakkuk, "7 Seals & 4 Horsemen", etc.<br /><br />George Washington had 74 generals in the Continental Army: 33 were Mason(47)s. There were 74 representatives to the Constitutional Convention (not at the same time[47]) and the Constitution's 7 Articles were written on 4 pages. The Southern Boundary Marker to Federal(7) City(4) was laid in a Masonic(74) ceremony on March 15, 1791: the 74th day of the year, etc. Brad Watson, Miamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05234079588322665605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-4645781908678180232013-07-03T12:22:11.378-05:002013-07-03T12:22:11.378-05:00Shouldn’t GOD = 7,15.4?
Or are we manipulating t...Shouldn’t GOD = 7,15.4? <br /><br />Or are we manipulating the rules to produce a desired result? J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-82043493846512957602013-07-03T12:16:59.123-05:002013-07-03T12:16:59.123-05:00GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th or 7 April 30 AD: Good Frida...GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th or 7 April 30 AD: Good Friday(74) when Jesus(74) the Jewish(74) Messiah(74) was on the Cross(74=C3+R18+O15+S19+S19).<br /><br />Freemasonry recognizes 'sacred geometry' and gematria(74).<br /><br />Continental Congress first met in 1774.<br /><br />John(4 letters,=47=J10+O15+H8+N14) Hancock(7,40) was the only representative of Congress to actually sign the Declaration of Independence of 7/4/1776. Charles Thomson(74=T20+H8+O+M13+S19+O+N14) - Secretary of Congress - attested it. THese two signatures can be seen on the 'Dunlop Broadsides'.<br /><br />Happy July 4th Holiday(74=H8+O15+L12+I9+D4+A1+Y25).Brad Watson, Miamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05234079588322665605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-82661762201645037192013-05-10T09:00:48.157-05:002013-05-10T09:00:48.157-05:00I'm glad the "King Hancock" anecdote...I'm glad the "King Hancock" anecdote was useful!<br /><br />I agree that there was a shift in the prestige of Boston's Freemasonry lodges during and after the war—further complicated by the split with the new lodge. That was a period of social mobility so families like the Lowells <i>became</i> very prominent for the first time in the years of the war and immediately afterward while upper-class families like the Deblois went away. <br /><br />I find the "strivers" like Paul Revere, Thomas Crafts, Henry Knox, William Burbeck, and Samuel Gore to be some of the most interesting men in Revolutionary Boston. They started as skilled craftsmen and came out as gentlemen, manufacturers, officeholders, militia officers, &c. I don't think many of them could have gotten into the St. John's Lodge in the 1760s. John Hancock probably could have, but I suspect his underestimated political instincts and wish to be a big fish in the pond led him to St. Andrew's instead. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-30872116799235060452013-05-09T23:13:19.777-05:002013-05-09T23:13:19.777-05:00Re Hancock -- not a bad question. I'd have to ...Re Hancock -- not a bad question. I'd have to pour over old minutes to answer. He became a member in 1762. The records then were not the best. I expect he was fairly busy, given his various responsibilities.<br /><br />On reflection, the mix of mechanics and others in the Lodge is something of a vexed question, confused a bit by the 1762 list of members and their occupations, which I think is rather unique. With 50 odd members, many are indeed craftsmen (chairmaker, carver, gun smith, etc.) but seven are listed as "merchant" and a full eighteen as ship captains (which seems surprising). An eclectic bunch.<br /><br />Later, by the 1770s, our view may be clouded by the preponderance of celebrated Brahmin names (Lowell, Putnam, Adams, Gardner, Loring, Gray, Goodwin, Coolidge, etc.), but that raises more complex questions regarding social class in the period in any case. After the Revolution, the star of the Lodge rose far above that of the Loyalist (and for a time extinct) St. John's, and the Lodge of St. Andrew became a haven for men of prominence and former Continental officers.<br /><br />In the decade prior to Warren's death, it's not surprising that mechanics were strongly represented. Warren was the idol, and a guiding light, of the North End Caucus, and I expect research would show considerable overlap in various political clubs to which the good Doctor.<br /><br />Possibly worth further consideration! This is, alas, well after my period, as by training I am an Assyriologist (and now, by trade, a lawyer).<br /><br />By the way, I read out one of your "King Hancock" posts tonight at our Table Lodge, for the edification and amusement of the members and some distinguished visitors. The article entitled "I mean King Hancock." Very well received, and I thank you for it! <br /><br />CharlesAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03109239086191915672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-90250105477646627102013-05-09T21:37:30.137-05:002013-05-09T21:37:30.137-05:00I didn’t list Hancock because he wasn’t that activ...I didn’t list Hancock because he wasn’t that active. After his induction, how many meetings did he attend before the Revolution?<br /><br />If we compare Boston’s St. Andrew Lodge to its St. John Lodge, I think a clear class distinction appears. The latter included more merchants and professionals, the former more luxury craftsmen (like Revere). Warren and Hancock strike me as exceptions to that pattern. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-88469882925348537142013-05-09T15:23:01.665-05:002013-05-09T15:23:01.665-05:00You didn't include "King" Hancock am...You didn't include "King" Hancock among the "Strivers" in the Lodge of St. Andrew! Actually "mechanics" like Revere were the exception rather than the rule.<br />The Lodge owned the tavern, and its sale funded the original endowment.<br />It's remained a tiny, very sociable and animated Lodge from the mid 18th century to the present day.<br /><br />Charles Thorland<br />Master, Lodge of St. Andrew<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-76144705793536151182013-02-21T00:06:40.357-05:002013-02-21T00:06:40.357-05:00There is a wooden plaque in the front door that ha...There is a wooden plaque in the front door that has clearly stated since they opened that this location is paying homage to the real one, which i beleive was located about 100 yards away where haymarket train station orange line entrance is. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-3101855451303892572012-08-10T12:07:10.034-05:002012-08-10T12:07:10.034-05:00As the posting and comments show, as of the summer...As the posting and comments show, as of the summer of 2011 there was some obvious confusion between the original Green Dragon Tavern and the modern pub. On my visit back then I didn't see any signage or copy in the menu or on place mats to clearly dispel that confusion. If things have changed, I'm pleased.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-32416121784807121982012-08-10T09:56:22.438-05:002012-08-10T09:56:22.438-05:00I have to say that the current green dragon does n...I have to say that the current green dragon does not claim to be the original. They opened in 1993 and are very open and honest that there was no gren dragon tavern in bostn for a century and a half. They are. Somers pub, and opened it in homage to the original. They have never claimed to be connected to the original. There may be pleanty of grammatical errors, but correcting that would be a difficult job through out the city. I think they have done a good job giving a nod to the original and their signage reflects that...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-2425665878999066272011-09-13T12:38:38.768-05:002011-09-13T12:38:38.768-05:00I would place the Copley farm pin further west, in...I would place the Copley farm pin further west, in the center of his holdings. But without checking real-estate maps I can’t be sure it’s not on a corner of his land. <br /><br />The John Hancock pin should indeed be one block to the left, at the house marked with a U. That building is actually labeled on the 1769 map because it was so prominent. I think William Molineux lived in the house nearest the blue pin now.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-30285562603462549812011-09-13T09:25:23.766-05:002011-09-13T09:25:23.766-05:00The blue pin for John Hancock's House and John...The blue pin for John Hancock's House and John Singleton Copley's Farm on the “Mapping Revolutionary Boston” map are not in the right place as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-77010344306825503662011-08-23T19:06:55.012-05:002011-08-23T19:06:55.012-05:00Yes, I was a little dismayed by that paragraph. Th...Yes, I was a little dismayed by that paragraph. The magazine’s fact-checkers contacted me about some other odd details, but not that one. <br /><br />I get the impression that Lepore tried hard not to pile on the Tea Partiers by pointing out historical mistakes, just omissions from their world-view. <br /><br />Of course, that didn’t stop adherents from hating her book. They seem to really dislike any analysis of the movement that doesn’t reflect back only its own understanding of itself.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-52026974979545175282011-08-23T18:18:15.648-05:002011-08-23T18:18:15.648-05:00Even Jill LePore appears to fall for this one. In...Even Jill LePore appears to fall for this one. In her "Tea and Sympathy" New Yorker essay of 5/3/2010, she gives the strong impression that the Green Dragon Tavern she visits to sit in on a Tea Party political meeting is the actual 18th-c. establishment.Don Carleton (Jr.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02995856884718068236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-61410179204767410542011-08-22T20:11:38.442-05:002011-08-22T20:11:38.442-05:00Now now, some of the capitalizations are 18th Cent...Now now, some of the capitalizations are 18th Century proper!Robert S. Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06208771657848284055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-78617883281273161222011-08-22T14:36:59.915-05:002011-08-22T14:36:59.915-05:00JL - I love your side lesson on proper grammar, su...JL - I love your side lesson on proper grammar, such as "whose" vs. "who's". Argh! Drives me crazy!John L. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14827783825431694038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-46950456949082241152011-08-22T14:31:19.262-05:002011-08-22T14:31:19.262-05:00While living in Boston I visited the Green Dragon ...While living in Boston I visited the Green Dragon once. It is quite obvious from the interior that either a) this was not the original Green Dragon or b) if this was the site of the Green Dragon, this was not the original building. Back then I checked Wikipedia which claimed that the present institution's relationship with the historic establishment "is not immediately apparent."<br /><br />As a teacher I tell my students to always view Wikipedia with skepticism. Thanks to your article I can now confirm my original suspicions (and Wikipedia's claims)!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />J.J.J.J.http://www.historyofold.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-72378796908912345342011-08-22T09:09:15.425-05:002011-08-22T09:09:15.425-05:00Oh, fie, JL, fie! How can you cast aspersions on t...Oh, fie, JL, fie! How can you cast aspersions on those who would twist history to their own ends to make a few bucks off it? What's a few minor historical points (such as the origins of the American Revolution) to quibble about when commerce calls? Don't fire until you see the whites- or greens- of their dollar bills, as it were.rfullernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-47166862286958085662011-08-21T19:38:55.809-05:002011-08-21T19:38:55.809-05:00The present Green Dragon tavern opened in my memor...The present Green Dragon tavern opened in my memory, I think in the 1980s. From the beginning its owners have made a conscious effort to play up the history angle; but they started from scratch. The sign outside their establishment bears a picture of the original tavern. Personally, I'd appreciate it more if the sign showed a picture of a real green dragon (as did the original sign in the 1700s).<br /><br />Across the street, the Bell in Hand tavern actually has a stronger claim to a connection with Revolutionary days; I believe they say they are descended in management from the Bell in Hand of the early 1800s, although the location has moved.<br /><br />The nearby Boston Stone also got its start as a tavern sign in 1737; until about 10 or 15 years ago there was still a Boston Stone tavern on that street. It's now called the Point.<br /><br />The site of the original Green Dragon is extremely difficult to pin down. It didn't really face the street, but was in the middle of the block, on an alley, with other buildings between it and the street. And the nearby streets were significantly altered in 1872, then completely obliterated in the urban renewal of the 1960s. I've found some old maps and have been able to confirm with some confidence that it was on the site now occupied by the entrance to the Orange Line, on [New] Congress St., just north of Hanover St.Charles Bahnenoreply@blogger.com