tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post6455509538141729119..comments2024-03-28T04:26:30.557-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: “Calling out, ‘King Hancock forever’!”Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-13489059963025028222013-04-22T08:12:29.591-05:002013-04-22T08:12:29.591-05:00It's conceivable that shouting "King Hanc...It's conceivable that shouting "King Hancock forever!" was more of an insult against George III's soldiers than a real expression of the provincials' political loyalties. Sure, they admired John Hancock and would have been pleased to have preserved him from arrest. But up and down the Whig ranks their goals was a return to the old charter with more self-government within the British system, not a new royal dynasty. Within a monarchy, as the Sex Pistols discovered later, shouting disrespect for the monarch might have been one of the biggest insults. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-34054750980406760322013-04-22T07:43:03.080-05:002013-04-22T07:43:03.080-05:00Perhaps I'm being cynical but the shouting of ...Perhaps I'm being cynical but the shouting of any political slogan during battle strikes me as questionable. Personal, vulgar, or obscene verbal attacks on the enemy would seem far more likely than political slogans. Might McKenzie have had some other motive?H.T. Harringtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-48934364165806331812013-04-21T20:33:55.252-05:002013-04-21T20:33:55.252-05:00I agree; the relative paucity of testimony from ou...I agree; the relative paucity of testimony from outside the genteel class makes it hard to know what ordinary Americans were saying, especially in the middle of a riot or battle. Did they shout praise for “King Hancock"? If so, what did that phrase imply about their loyalty to King George? <br /><br />Since writing the comment above I found an earlier reference to the phrase “King Hancock,” predating even the fight that Osbelddeston wrote about. I added it to tomorrow's posting, but I can't say it makes the situation any clearer. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-27378490504212017152013-04-21T19:46:39.170-05:002013-04-21T19:46:39.170-05:00Boston's radical leadership, the people who wo...Boston's radical leadership, the people who would have most objected to the term "King Hancock," were very controlling of the written record. Further, the types of Americans who may have said "King Hancock" are likely not the ones to have left written materials behind, at least not such that concerned what things they may have cheered. <br /><br />If the phrase shows up in numerous British accounts, written by people who in all likelihood never met, perhaps it is something that was said by Americans, albeit only those at the lower end of the social spectrum, and those who were somewhat more zealous than the radical leadership may have wanted. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00247014165757221517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-64495722569771042972013-04-21T18:11:02.908-05:002013-04-21T18:11:02.908-05:00Those words for "Yankee Doodle" seem to ...Those words for "Yankee Doodle" seem to have appeared in print around 1830, and in Washington or Philadelphia rather than Boston. I found another set of remembered verses that actually includes reference to Hancock as a king. Again, these are American sources saying what British people said about Americans. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-86912466144450732612013-04-21T16:54:11.317-05:002013-04-21T16:54:11.317-05:00Historian Page Smith, whom I knew and respected gr...Historian Page Smith, whom I knew and respected greatly, passed along the story that as Lord Percy's troops were recollected, marching out of Lexington for their original destination of Concord, [April 1775]they played a version of "Yankee Doodle" that ended with ... “Yankee Doodle’s come to town, for to buy a firelock;<br />We will tar and feather him, and so will we John Hancock”.<br />John L Smith Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209064146960498237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-12103780611764386872013-04-21T14:27:21.391-05:002013-04-21T14:27:21.391-05:00Thanks for that reference! It's four years ear...Thanks for that reference! It's four years earlier than the first appearance of the phrase in American newspapers (which I plan to share tomorrow). As with most uses of the phrases, it comes from a British witness claiming to describe what Americans said. And I'm not 100% sure we can rely on all those testimonies. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-25253048932595437032013-04-21T12:32:44.799-05:002013-04-21T12:32:44.799-05:00"King Hancock" was an appellation for Ha..."King Hancock" was an appellation for Hancock which had existed as early as 1770. On the 29th of May, 1770, at the hospital which was kept on the Common after the troops had largely been withdrawn from Boston to Castle William and to New Jersey, a crowd of townspeople appeared and roughed up some of the soldiers there. One soldier of the 29th Regiment, Edward Osbelddeston recounted in a deposition taken in the following August the crowd exclaiming, "Damn the King of Great Britain, Damn the Ministry, and all the Scoundrels that order’d the Lobsters to Boston, and drinking a health to King Hancock hoping King George would not be long on the Throne." This is, as you have put it, from a supporter of the royal government, but given that it is 5 years apart from the later reference, "King Hancock" may indeed have been a common cheer for Hancock, if perhaps something he may not have desired.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00247014165757221517noreply@blogger.com