tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post881770558425750865..comments2024-03-14T13:25:20.613-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: America’s Anti-Catholic TurnaroundUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-66798729596562813322013-01-26T17:26:12.363-05:002013-01-26T17:26:12.363-05:00The 1745 uprising didn't turn New Englanders a...The 1745 uprising didn't turn New Englanders against the Scots, I think. It confirmed their long-held suspicion about the Scots.<br /><br />New England was settled by people moving away from the early Stuart governments. American Puritans rejoiced at the fall of Charles I and later protected three "regicides." They felt vindicated when the later Stuart kings turned Catholic and James II was deposed. While the rest of the British Empire became dubious about Oliver Cromwell, he remained a hero in New England.<br /><br />Given that background, it was easy for New Englanders to add the ’45 to their list of reasons to be suspicious about the Scots. Even if that wariness meant overlooking the similarities between Congregationalism and Presbyterianism, the ideas of the Scottish Enlightenment, &c.<br /><br />As with Catholics, however, once the war started, American Patriots were open to support from any quarter. As I recall, that included a ship of "Highlanders" that arrived in Boston harbor in the summer of 1776, not realizing the British military had left. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-24402586991458230432013-01-26T10:17:02.275-05:002013-01-26T10:17:02.275-05:00Here's a collection of James Murray's lett...Here's a <a href="http://books.google.com/books/about/Letters_of_James_Murray_loyalist.html?id=ge3XDZ04NcgC" rel="nofollow">collection of James Murray's letters</a> that includes biographical information. His sister Elizabeth was also prominent in Boston; I've listed her in the tags as Elizabeth Murray Campbell Smith Inman. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-79091502393438331142013-01-26T03:12:16.034-05:002013-01-26T03:12:16.034-05:00I guess I don't understand what made them disl...I guess I don't understand what made them dislike the Scots because of The '45. It seems the Stuarts/Pretenders were promising reforms and freedoms for Scotland that were yet to be given by the Georgians despite the promises of the Glorious Revolution, hence we know why the Jacobites supported the Pretenders, but assuming the American New Englanders were aware of this history, I wonder why The '45 made them dislike Scots?<br /><br />James Murray? Tell me more about this James Murray, if you could. Do you have any information on him? I take it he settled in Boston? The reason I ask is because I descend from the Murray line of Scotland (although I realize there are quite a lot of Murrays), and I have a few ancestors named James Murray, though I don't know if any of them ever lived in Boston during that time. Perhaps they were a distant relative though...<br /><br />Looking at my family line, I see I have several ancestors who lived in North Carolina, Maryland, and Virginia that lived during the Revolution and perhaps fought in it (hopefully on the right side!). In fact I have a relative named William Burgess who was born and lived in Albermarle County, VA during Jefferson's time. I wonder if he ever ran into Jefferson...I'm not sure if he was part of the aristocratic class or not though...Pacificushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058712719235762139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-18189754306688131032013-01-26T01:45:49.792-05:002013-01-26T01:45:49.792-05:00New Englanders distrusted Scotsmen more than Ameri...New Englanders distrusted Scotsmen more than Americans to the south. And they seem to have had several reasons for doing so (I'm not saying these were <i>good</i> reasons):<br /><br />1) New Englanders distrusted anybody who wasn't Congregationalist. This included Presbyterians as well as Anglicans, Quakers, Baptists, &c. It must have galled them tremendously when visiting Englishmen referred to their meetinghouses as "Presbyterian."<br /><br />2) New Englanders distrusted outsiders. Many of the most prominent Scotsmen in pre-Revolutionary Boston were relatively recent arrivals without roots or deep business ties within the colony and therefore inclined to side with the Crown: John Mein, James Murray, the McMasters brothers, &c. <br /><br />3) Lord Bute was a Scotsman. He was having an affair with the king's mother. (Not really.) He had too much influence on the young king. (Not after the first few years.) And he was behind the Stamp Act. (No, he wasn't.)<br /><br />4) The ’45. The Stuart Pretenders. <br /><br />5) They talked funny. And they dressed funny, at least in political cartoons. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-67392331960594846732013-01-25T18:47:19.023-05:002013-01-25T18:47:19.023-05:00What is it exactly that the American Whigs/Patriot...What is it exactly that the American Whigs/Patriots had against the Scots? The Scots at this time weren't Catholic, or rather the Scottish church/kirk was Presbyterian, or Protestant, and the Scots didn't necessarily support the Jacobite kings because they were Catholic, at least not according to what I've learned about Scotland's Jacobite uprisings.<br /><br />BBC came out with what seems to be a decent history of Scotland, and episodes 6, 7, and 8 talk about Scotland's role leading up to and during the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, and the reasons behind the Jacobite uprisings of the 18th century. According to this narrative, the Scottish Covenanters, while horrid and oppressive during their Rule of the Saints, had wide support in Scotland and gained power politically and in the church and proposed the exact protection rights and limited monarchy that resulted in the Glorious Revolution and 1689 Bill of Rights in their National Covenant of the late 1630s (I believe). They initially supported the Parliamentarians against Charles the 1st because of his forcing of religious changes on the Scottish Kirk, but then switched to support Charles the II because they had forced him to sign their National Covenant and were not a fan of the Cromwellian dictatorship that resulted from the Commonwealth. And most Scots supported the Jacobite Stuart kings over the Georgian kings because they promised even more reforms and protection of rights and limited monarchy than was practiced under William and Mary, Queen Anne, and the Georgian kings. Most Scots seemed not to like Catholicism, and given their reasons in supporting the Stuart kings over the Georgian ones, and given Scotland's struggle for its independence for hundreds of years against England, you'd think the American rebels would have liked the Scots and invoked their struggles as their own. So I don't quite understand the American rebel's dislike of the Scots during the colonial debate and the war for Independence, especially since John Witherspoon was a Scot as was James Wilson, and both were at the forefront of the colonial debate in support of American rights and during the Independence movement...<br /><br />Here's the BBC "A History of Scotland," episode 6<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFV5fxJVrfE<br /><br />Episode 7<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UShL_RfL4Ls<br /> <br />Episode 8<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovDnK0TeO-I<br /><br />Episode 8 talks specifically about Scotland's influence on the American Revolution. In addition, it's interesting how much the American Revolution and Thomas Paine had an influence on the Scottish Radical War of 1820.<br /><br />http://www.electricscotland.com/history/1820/<br /><br />Anyway, someone care to explain the American rebels dislike of the Scots during the 1760s and 1770s?Pacificushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058712719235762139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-9103985803710333972013-01-25T10:43:14.669-05:002013-01-25T10:43:14.669-05:00The article on Concord is interesting in that most...The article on Concord is interesting in that most people from Revolutionary Concord had probably never seen a "papist" to know of. For that matter, they were probably scarce and quiet in Boston before the war as well. But they were the official enemies of the British Empire. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-81622074745646024062013-01-25T10:06:33.995-05:002013-01-25T10:06:33.995-05:00Dr. Michael Ryan has a nice piece on the anti-Cath...Dr. Michael Ryan has a nice piece on the anti-Catholicism (highlighting Concord's intolerance)here: <br /><br />http://www.concordma.com/magazine/mar99/papists.html<br />MJ Sentancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14709710967540169545noreply@blogger.com