tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post1931170151025509569..comments2024-03-28T04:26:30.557-05:00Comments on Boston 1775: Seeing “Whites of Their Eyes” Everywhere and NowhereUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-20998853163326893912014-02-20T18:35:26.608-05:002014-02-20T18:35:26.608-05:00To add on Parker's comment. My guess it's ...To add on Parker's comment. My guess it's a phrase that was in use in various forms. from the beginning of individual firearmsJameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13642228725661059539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-61811422280661489732014-02-19T12:45:41.581-05:002014-02-19T12:45:41.581-05:00Thanks for sharing that quote. There are other var...Thanks for sharing that quote. There are other variations as well. Adm. Nelson was said to have told his gunners not to fire until they could see the sailors on the other side blink at the flash. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-40616425658147566242014-02-19T12:10:46.411-05:002014-02-19T12:10:46.411-05:00I am sorry that I have nothing to add on the origi...I am sorry that I have nothing to add on the origins of the "whites of their eyes" directives. I do have the following account from a 5th-grt-grdfthr's acct. of service, for the 1832 pension application:<br /><br />"... was out again in this militia under Capt. Fancher for three weeks near Fort Independence - thinks this was when Washington went Southward after Cornwallis. Thinks Eben Scofield was lieutenant - were attacked in that place & had [an engagement] with them & drove them back Genl. Heath came there and told us not to fire till we could see the buckles on the enemy's shoes"Jon von Briesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09223645726996149220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-72484297026474513412014-02-18T09:07:57.999-05:002014-02-18T09:07:57.999-05:00Any shooting is more accurate the closer the targe...Any shooting is more accurate the closer the target is, and commanders always want to stop their soldiers from wasting their shots. So whether it was cannon or muskets, commanders would have urged their men not to fire until the enemy was closer than they'd probably like. "Whites of their eyes" proved to be a notable (and not strictly accurate) way that idea was expressed, so we're looking to trace the development and memory of that phrase. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-22451891175667067752014-02-18T07:13:49.313-05:002014-02-18T07:13:49.313-05:00I imagine (note that key word), given that musket ...I imagine (note that key word), given that musket fire was largely inaccurate at distance, and had to be fired in volley to be effective, that it must have been common to hold fire until your enemy was close.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Jack ParkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-14049913404112566252014-02-17T16:32:02.756-05:002014-02-17T16:32:02.756-05:00As I read that source, it's a little bit recur...As I read that source, it's a little bit recursive - it's how an <i>English</i> essayist reported that <i>French</i> captains remembered the former habits of <i>English</i> captains - and, implicitly, it's what the English captains would've been telling their crews in times of old. It's possible that it's an accurate report. But it's much more likely, given how few Englishmen would've been in a position to record the orders of French naval captains in the middle of a war, that the essayist is placing this bit of dialogue in the mouth of the French captain for maximal political effect.<br /><br />Either way, I think the central point remains - that it was a naval phrase signaling an inclination for close combat.Yoninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-28675051595850917122014-02-17T15:38:33.045-05:002014-02-17T15:38:33.045-05:00Excellent! The citations from 1794 and 1806 are al...Excellent! The citations from 1794 and 1806 are also both from the Royal Navy, and the former hints at an “Old English” tradition rather than a single commander’s coinage. <br /><br />It’s interesting that the now-earliest citation in English actually uses the phrase to refer to how <i>French</i> naval captains used to behave. J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28102666.post-85235553230329899252014-02-17T14:27:49.241-05:002014-02-17T14:27:49.241-05:00Here's a theory for you. I think this was a mi...Here's a theory for you. I think this was a mid-seventeenth century phrase popular in the Royal Navy. In that context, it actually makes sense. It would be the injunction from a particularly determined commander to hold fire until the ships were laid directly alongside each other, reserving the broadside for the moment of maximal impact, albeit at the risk of paying a terrible price. So the injunction not to fire "until you see the whites of their eyes" was the mark of a particularly bold commander. (It's also possible that improving standards of gunnery and better cannon helped retire the phrase from common naval usage.)<br /><br />I think the contemporary citations help bear this out. Two from the monitor, both published at the onset of the Seven Years War, referring to the War of Austrian Succession. One from a retired Admiral, referring to a naval engagement in 1760, during the Seven Years War. And Admiral Howe's own use - given that Howe made post-captain during the War of Austrian Succession, and was an active commander during the Seven Year's War.<br /><br />Where did Israel Putnam pick it up? Perhaps while he was shipping back and forth from Havana, as part of the ill-fated British expedition during the Seven Year's War. <br /><br />It doesn't, as you and others have pointed out, make a whole heck of a lot of sense as a command to militia men. Wait until you can see the whites of their eyes, and they may survive the initial volley and storm your position. But it's just the sort of salty dialogue that an old warhorse like Putnam might've slung around as he tried to buoy the spirits of his troops - reaching back to his own distant past in an effort to sound less like a farmer, and a little more like a soldier. <br /><br />What's really interesting is that I can't find any earlier citations for land battles. And I'd honestly be surprised if any turned up. I suspect it was Putnam who first adapted the naval phrase, and that other authors later borrowed it.<br /><br />----------<br />The Monitor No. 49, Saturday, July 10, 1756: "You must needs have heard, Sir Andrew, how the French captains are reported to have addressed their crews in the last war when they spied any of our great ships:<br><i>Chear, my good boys; you are in no danger, the ships look formidable, indeed, but they have p-l-y captains, very worthy peaceable men who will do you little harm, possibly they may make a flourish or give you a broadside or two at a distance, but they have dropt their old way of not firing till they see the whites of your eyes."</i><br /><br />The Monitor No. 105, Saturday, December 10, 1757:<br />"...and that our admirals would become as terrible as their predecessors, who never fired until they could see the white of their enemy's eye, and were not daunted at a superior force."<br /><br />The Monthly Visitor, April 1798 (Letter from a Yellow Admiral - and old retired sailor - excoriating Lord Chatham):<br />"Was not I with Commodore Elliot, when we took all Thurot's squadron, after a brisk action of seven glasses? D-mme! We laid them close along-side, and did not fire a gun until we could see the white of their eyes."Yoninoreply@blogger.com